Game Covers Women Want to See Meme

[revena]

I've been meaning to do my answer for the "Game Covers Women Want to See Meme" for ages. Finally getting around to it tonight! Here's what it's all about - a while back, Brand Robins, posting at Yudishthira's Dice, said the following:

Ladies, what RPG covers (or interiors) have you seen that involve a woman in the art that make you say, “I want to play that” or, just as good “I want to play her.” Or that make you feel like it is a game you could like, or be included in by a group of guys you’d never met and whose maturity you didn’t neccisarily know?

And then tekanji turned it into a meme:

1. Copy the text of the original challenge from Yudhishthira’s Dice and give a proper link attribution.
2. Copy these rules exactly (including any links).
3. Find images of game covers (interiors are okay, too) that make you want to play the game. Any kind of game — video game, card game, tabletop RPG, etc — is fine. Post them and include a short (or long) explanation on why the image makes/made you want to play the game.
4. The original challenge is about finding out what women think about how game art is marketed and therefore it is targeted at women. I’d like to keep it that way, please.
5. You can tag as many or as few people as you want. You do not need to be tagged to participate in the meme.
6. When you make your post, please post the link on this thread so we can all see what others have said.

So here are a few covers that I've gotten excited about over the years:



This was the first computer game that I really wanted to play. The main character was a girl! And she was on the box and everything! SO COOL.

And thus began my long-lasting love of Sierra games.

Another King's Quest title also had a cover that made me want to play it desperately, again because it featured women as main characters and, more specifically, one female character that I already knew and liked:



If I'm remembering correctly, I ended up receiving this game as a Christmas present after talking it up for a long time (it may have been something that was given to me and Erik as a joint present, but I have a sense that it was just for me). I was SO. EXCITED. to play - and couldn't, because our external CD drive was too slow. Happily for me, Dad decided that it was high time for an upgrade, and a few days later I was happily immersed in getting totally stuck and... not ever finishing the game (it'll be interesting to see if I can finish it now that I'm 24, when I get around to playing it again).

I don't remember being particularly moved with that "zomg want to play!" urge by any gaming covers (for any kind of game) for a long time, after that. The next one was for a tabletop RPG, and it looked like this (there are no women in this cover art, but I'm including it anyway, because of how it made me feel):



My brother was putting together a Shadowrun game, and as soon as I looked at his sourcebooks and saw that cover, I knew I had to play a decker. The experience of actually playing a decker was kind've a disappointment (much like the frustrating KQVII, there was a constant sense that my thinking was somehow just not quite aligning with that of the game designers), but I was so jazzed up by that sourcebook that I spent weeks before the game started doodling pictures of what my decker character looked like, and imagining an elaborate backstory for her. And that was certainly fun.

The next cover after that which got me excited to play something is one that seems to have had a similar effect on lots of women:



I saw the cover for Dungeon Siege for the first time when I was at a time in my life where I'd grown aware enough of the conventions of my chosen geeky hobbies to know that seeing a woman in armor on a gaming product without any cleavage showing was something important. The character on the box did not look like a prize to be won, or an object to be admired. She looked like a main character - one who was about to kick someone's ass.

I think that was the first video game I bought for myself that wasn't some kind of sim (I was big into pretend fish tanks when I was a preteen, for some reason), and I agonized over getting it to run on my Dad's computer. It's another one I never managed to finish - but I had a great time creating my ass-kicking female character and doing what I could with an insufficient graphics card and memory, before my brother "borrowed" the game (which I've not seen since).

I've got a bargain-bin copy of Dungeon Siege sitting on my desktop right now, just waiting for me to give it another try.

The last cover I managed to track down a picture of which really got me excited about playing a game is this one (again with the no women - but still an awesome cover):



That was the book that made me feel happy about upgrading to D&D 3.5. Dragons, you guys! A whole book about dragons! I don't know that I need to say any more about that.

So, to sum up - I like cover art that has women main characters on it. I like cover art that gets me excited about the fantasy world inside the game, without turning me off by making me feel excluded right off the bat (having no human characters at all seems to be preferable to having only men). And I like dragons.

I'm not going to tag anyone specifically, but if you're a woman who games and hasn't done this meme yet, think about it - it's kinda fun, and also thought-provoking.

Another thing to think about, if you're interested in this women-and-games stuff, is writing a piece for Cerise, and/or getting involved with the IRIS forums. I'm having so much fun with that community - I'd love to see more of you over there.

Comments

Boobie digression

[arkivarie.livejournal.com]

Um, you are aware (I hope!) that cleavage = bimbo is NOT necessarily true? One of the reasons I LOVED the tv series Relic Hunter was the way they played with these kinds of stereotypes: i.e. the male was not only the sidekick, but was the one complaining about getting his hair messed-up; the scantily-clad assistant kicked major bureaucratic butt!

Re: Boobie digression

[tekanji.livejournal.com]

Um, you are aware that praising a cover for putting a woman in appropriate armor rather than putting her in a costume that is clearly objectifying is not even remotely the same as calling a woman a bimbo, right?

The former is a critique on the way that women's bodies are packaged and sold for a presumably male audience, which then encourages them to view women as always sexually available and a vacuous fantasy rather than a real person.

The latter -- which you are accusing revena of, which is a grave insult by the way -- is perpetuating the idea above (that women, in this case "bimbos", are vacuous fantasy objects rather than real people) is something that is woman-hating and sexist in nature, and is counter to the point that she was trying to make.

Sorry if I sound pissy, but I am really really tired of people confusing valid feminist critique with pushing woman-hating agenda that is, at its heart, no different than the misogynist objectification that is being critiqued.

Re: Boobie digression

[arkivarie.livejournal.com]

Perhaps you should try rereading my comment since you clearly did NOT grasp my point.

Re: Boobie digression

[tekanji.livejournal.com]

Um, you are aware (I hope!) that cleavage = bimbo is NOT necessarily true?

Then please explain to me how the above is not conflating revena's point with saying that "cleavage = bimbo".

Re: Boobie digression

[(Anonymous)]

"Then please explain to me how the above is not conflating revena's point with saying that "cleavage = bimbo"."

No, you are rude. If you had made a logical argument refuting my comment then I would enjoy having a *discussion* on this topic. Because you were in your own words "pissy" I don't care to discuss this or any other topic with you. If Revena has a problem with my comment, then SHE can take that up with me.

Re: Boobie digression

[tekanji.livejournal.com]

I took your debate tactic and used it, but at least I had the decency to acknowledge that my tone was rude (although I don't feel that a rude tone is enough to validate the logical argument I was, in fact, making) whereas you seem to want to place all the blame on me, while not questioning whether or not you had some responsibility in creating a hostile argument rather than a debate.

Your tone was rude and condescending and I reacted to it strongly. I acknowledge that my response was not the most mature or correct one. I am sorry, and I truly do apologize for that response. But I stand by the points that I made, and I stand by my anger -- though not the expression of it -- as a natural one to the way that you worded your response to her.

Re: Boobie digression

[revena.livejournal.com]

Tone is one of those things that's notoriously difficult to read on the internet. I'm sympathetic to both of you, here - I can see how each of you felt the other was rude, and I can also see how each of you felt that her own word choices were valid and appropriate.

I really appreciate that both of you, while disagreeing about the appropriateness of the other's language, have stopped short of namecalling, egregious rudeness, etc. I'm a little worried that that won't stay the case if this discussion between you progresses much further. If the two of you want to talk about this together any longer on my journal, I'd like to ask you both to dial it back a few notches.

Re: Boobie digression

[tekanji.livejournal.com]

I've given my apology and the explanation for my behaviour. I have nothing more to say on the matter, unless arkivarie finds herself wanting to similarly step off and acknowledge and discuss the points that I made.

Re: Boobie digression

[revena.livejournal.com]

Hah, if cleavage = bimbo, we'd all be in lots of trouble, wouldn't we? Even I with my tiny boobs have had cleavage on occasion. ;-)

I wasn't trying to draw that parallel, and I have no problem whatsoever with real live women who enjoy cleavage-baring outfits. I do get mightily annoyed at fantasy heroines who are drawn wearing armor that exposes more than it protects, though, and that's part of why the mostly-practical Dungeon Siege cover woman appealed to me so much.

I've never heard of Relic Hunter - it sounds like a fun campy sort of show. When was it on?

Re: Boobie digression

[arkivarie.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about this topic while grocery shopping this afternoon. MOST of the fantasy heroes' outfits/armor are grossly unrealistic whether we're talking Conan or Xena or various computer games. Having engaged in historical reenactment for about 25 years, I KNOW that the fantasy armor is totally useless in a real combat situation. In real life if I was ever up against Conan, I'd just stand back and poke him in the ass with a spear until he fainted from loss of blood!!! :-)

I should probably mention that I haven't been in North America since Feb. 1994; I live in western Sweden. Here breasts aren't much of a big deal; I can see them at the lake when the weather is warm. If I consider whether or not to buy a computer game, my biggest concern is what review the game got in PC för Alla mag.

Relic Hunter was on tv in North America from 1999-2002 although we got it here in Sweden a bit later. "I'm talking about something much more serious than a curse! I'm talking about a crazy woman in a bustier!" is one of my all-time favorite lines from a tv show.

Re: Boobie digression

[revena.livejournal.com]

I was thinking about this topic while grocery shopping this afternoon. MOST of the fantasy heroes' outfits/armor are grossly unrealistic whether we're talking Conan or Xena or various computer games.

Oh, totally. The DS woman above has slightly more practical armor than the standard, but it still doesn't look like real armor would. And neither does any of the armor worn by pretty much any fantasy character, male or female.

What I was very vaguely gesturing at, though, is that there's a difference between the ways in which fantasy art depicting men and women is silly. Male characters are usually powerful and heroic, and their ridiculously impractical armor is meant to make them look more bad-ass and imposing. If flesh is showing, it's usually heavily-muscled, bad-ass-looking flesh. The male characters will be in strong stances, looking right out at the viewer, or else engaged actively in battling other characters in the art. The focus for female characters is less on power and more on sexiness. The parts of their bodies left uncovered by armor are not muscled-looking and powerful - they're soft and curvy, even when muscles would make more sense (a lot of fantasy heroines have very soft-looking, slender upper arms. Even when they're holding gigantic swords overhead. Bzuh?). There's a big tendency in fantasy art to show female characters looking down at the ground, or vaguely off to one side, instead of at the viewer or right at another character. They're often posed passively behind a male character who is engaged in some activity.

That's the kind of art that I've gotten used to in gaming products, and it's why something like the DS cover image is so appealing to me. She looks like a character I'd want to play, myself, rather than like a supporting cast member of some kind for a main male character.

[furikku.livejournal.com]

I actually can't think of any games I've bought on the basis of the cover. In fact, even the awesome games that I love for their strong female protags (the Tales of series, Phantasy Star IV) have cover art that focuses on the fanboy pandering.

Le sigh...

[revena.livejournal.com]

*nod* the series of posts that Brand Robins made before the one that kickstarted the meme was about the ubiquity of objectification in art for tabletop RPGs - I think there's definitely a problem with that with adventure games of all kinds.

[arkivarie.livejournal.com]

If you go further back in time, the mid-20th century sci-fi mags had really lurid cover art that, ironically, had nearly NOTHING to do with the stories. Same goes for the movie posters even though the typical 50s sci-fi flick barely included a brief kiss between the male and female leads. At this point I wonder how many companies design the cover art for their games along the principles of "that's how it's always been" and don't even think about *why.*

[revena.livejournal.com]

I think there's definitely a lot of the "way it's always been" effect in play, yeah. It's hard for fantasy artists and art directors to really even think about what other designs might look like - and there's not a big enough market pressure to do so. Though that seems to be starting to change.